[Staowners] ENGINE SUPPORT BARS

Fri Sep 7 21:21:33 EDT 2007

Hi Richard,thanks again for info,there is a man here who had made the mods to keep the engine stabilisers with the mk3 Sedan engine,have yet to view it,when I do,I will take some Photo's.all the Scuttle shakes I have experianced have been around the 55 to 60 MPH,interesting I have a Talbot and Alpine road test book,on road test when they were new it states,of a new Alpine,"The car generally is free from vibration,although at speeds around 85MPH with the tyres at the high pressure,some transverse vibration of the scuttle and windscreen was noticed on some roads with rough surface,this was not apparent below that speed range" Thanks again, Mal Clark.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Richard Atkinson (IESE) 
  To: 'Mal Clark' ; Staowners at sunbeamtalbot.info 
  Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 1:12 AM
  Subject: RE: [Staowners] ENGINE SUPPORT BARS

  Hi Mal,

  Same here, I've got a Mk1 Alpine with a Mk3 sedan engine in it.  Eventually I tracked down a Mk3 Alpine water pump but they're close to impossible to find.  Wonder if the club might tool the housing if enough people asked?  Before I found it, I was (rather in desperation), planning to fit a rod from the engine to the chassis rail to prevent the torque reaction.  Obviously the further from the engine crank centre line the better which is why Rootes secured it to the top of the engine, but maybe another option is the bottom of the bellhousing?  There's no easy answer.

  I've got scuttle shake on my car too but it seems road speed related.  I've had all the wheel balanced on the car so logic suggests it's somewhere in the drivetrain but after the clutch (it persists if you de-clutch).  I've got the car booked onto a vibration analysis rig at a specialist who happens to be near me, so if I learn anything useful I'll pass it on!

  Best regards,

  Richard

  Tel. 01926 431006

  Mob. 07979 917635

  richard.atkinson at iese.net

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  From: Mal Clark [mailto:shadow74 at bigpond.com.au] 
  Sent: 07 September 2007 16:01
  To: richard.atkinson at iese.net; Staowners at sunbeamtalbot.info
  Subject: Re: [Staowners] ENGINE SUPPORT BARS

  Thanks Richard,for info,I do have all the bits except I am using a MK3 engine from a sedan,so no top Water pump mount,and mostly,I am running a Power steering and Air Cond,these all get in the way,of the bars will think about the situation, interesting your comment about scuttle vibration,as you know this has beed discussed on the site,and this scuttle shake has been present in alot of Alpines I have had or worked on,all with the support bars, thanks again Mal Clark.

    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: Richard Atkinson (IESE) 

    To: 'Mal Clark' ; Staowners at sunbeamtalbot.info 

    Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 12:30 AM

    Subject: RE: [Staowners] ENGINE SUPPORT BARS

    Mal, 

    They're the equivalent of the roll restrictor you'll find on any modern car powertrain.  Basically their role is to resist the torque reaction of the engine (i.e. tendency to twist on its longitudinal axis as it revs).  Some of this is a simple turning moment, some of it's a vibration load.  The likely reason why they went to the bother and expense of it (I speak as an ex-Ford powertrain design engineer - trust me nothing gets put onto a car that costs a penny more than is necessary!), is that the ability of the open bodyshell to resist these loads is much less than that of the saloon.  Effectively the saloon's roof completes the box section and makes it strong enough to do the job.  So, the saloons don't need this framework because the body and roof is the frame - all that's needed is to tie the engine to that frame, which is what that little 'L' shaped bracket at the bulkhead does.

    If you use the saloon bracket on an Alpine or coupe, you'll transfer loads into the body that it may not cope with, giving you scuttle vibration and maybe fatigue cracks in the longer term.  If you don't use either, you will be putting a twisting load into the other engine mountings (which were designed only to bear pure compression loads), with the result that the engine will move about more on its mounts that is probably good for it, and one fine day the engine mount rubbers may fail.

    For what it's worth, I had the same dilemma as my Alpine was missing these bits and they're mighty hard to find, as is the right water pump that they mount to.  Find or fabricate, I think, as they can't really be got around; at least the rubber mounts are obtainable though.  Hope this helps some,

    Richard Atkinson

    Tel. 01926 431006

    Mob. 07979 917635

    richard.atkinson at iese.net

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    From: staowners-bounces at sunbeamtalbot.info [mailto:staowners-bounces at sunbeamtalbot.info] On Behalf Of Mal Clark
    Sent: 07 September 2007 14:58
    To: Staowners at sunbeamtalbot.info
    Subject: [Staowners] ENGINE SUPPORT BARS

    Hi everyone,have a think about this,the Alpine and Drophead Coupes,have fitted to the front of the engine, support bars which are solid mounted at the bottom,and rubber mounted at the top, Why don't sedans have these???? seeing the Alpine,and Coupe and most sedans share the same chassis,with different bodies mounted on the top,I wonder if they are really neccessary,the sedans are fitted with a rear rubber mount,onto the firewall, if the support bars are neccessary,what is going to happen to my Alpine if I dont (cant) fit them,I am going to fit the rear rubber mount to the firewall,interested in your comments, Mal Clark.

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