[Staowners] Rear Light Lens Correct Mk3 Info

[Max King]

Pete is indeed correct.  I was in a bit of a hurry when I initially answered
Mal's enquiry and did not think things through properly.  I did not recall that
Mk3s were equipped with turn signal relays (Lucas Type DB10/L, Lucas Part Number
33117A, Rootes Part Number P.44695).   This relay routed power to for the
stoplight function or turn signal function to a single bulb in the tail light. 
Thus, the Rootes parts manual listing and illustration of the red lens Lucas
572888, which is a one bulb/centering cone lens, is indeed correct for Mk3s.  My
apologies for any confusion.

Cheers!  --Max

Quoting starcars8 at comcast.net:

> More on Mk111 tail lights. The Mk111 "wedge " shaped lens covered a one bulb
> tail light. the stop light filament also did double duty as the flasher
> element enabled by the use of a Lucas DB10/L relay which  allows the flasher
> to operate when the brake is applied. Very similar to  a lot of US cars. So
> with the brake applied you have one brake light on steady and the other
> flashing. I have wired my Mk11 and 11a via a double pole switch to have
> flasher only or flasher and trafficators. The flasher only being more
> effective for freeway use. Doing it this way also retains the original lights
> with no "add on's" to detract from the original look. Export Alpines with
> flashers also had the reverse light incorporated into the license plate
> light.
> 
>                                                         Pete
> -------------- Original message -------------- 
> From: Max King <mjking at pobox.upenn.edu> 
> These are all Lucas Type 464 taillamp assemblies -- the lenses varied based
> on whether 1 or 2 bulbs in the 464 body.  These red lenses had
> correspondingly either 1 or 2 "centering cones" (Lucas nomenclature), which
> are approx. 1" Fresnel circles molded into the lens over the bulb location.  
> The red lenses are (pictures attached):
> 
> 464A (Lucas 572673): one centering cone, used for one stop/marker bulb
> ("Non-Flashing")
> 
> 464B (Lucas 572672): two centering cones, used for one stop/marker bulb and
> one turn signal bulb (two bulbs) ("Flasher Type")
> 
> 464E (Lucas 572876): Fitted to Mk3 90s (this lens is wedge-shaped and
> compensates for the curvature of the body): two centering cones, used for one
> stop/marker bulb and one turn signal bulb ("Flasher Type").  For some reason,
> the Rootes parts manual lists and shows Lucas 572888, which is a one
> bulb/centering cone lens, but most of the Mk3s I'm familiar with have turn
> signal flashers and are fitted with two-cone lenses...  By that time, UK cars
> were no longer fitted with trafficators but had turn signal flashers, and at
> the recent STAR rally, I only recall seeing two-cone "flasher" lenses on Mk3s
> -- any comment by Mk3 owners?
> 
> All of the above have either 464A, 464B, or 464E molded into the surface of
> the lens.
> 
> Just to complicate things, in later years to reduce stock, Lucas made a
> replacement lens also listed as 572672, which had three centre cones and thus
> could be used as replacements for either one or two bulb 464 lights.  These
> have no "ribs" on the surface and are made of a more modern red glass that is
> a bit brighter (but the original 464As & Bs are remarkably bright if in good
> condition).   Some stockists still carry these replacement lenses, but are
> not correct for the period of our cars (but perfectly functional).
> 
> Relative rarity:
> 
> --464As are relatively available and can be picked up at UK autojumbles for
> as little as 50p -- these were fitted to a lot of UK cars.
> 
> --The 464Bs are getting quite rare and fetch a premium whenever they show up
> on eBay (this I know from experience).  These I speculate were fitted mostly
> to cars exported from the UK.
> 
> --The 464Es (for the Mk3) are mildly rare and can be reasonably priced; they
> were fitted to many cars as well following the demise of trafficators.
> 
> Regarding reversing lights, generally only Mk3s were fitted with the number
> plate lights that incorporated a reversing lens (although some folks I've
> consulted are of the opinion that some earlier cars, particularly export
> Alpines, were also fitted with the reversing lens number plate lights).  If
> you are using red lenses with a non-reversing number plate light, appropriate
> period Lucas reversing lights would be the ubiquitous Type 494 or possibly
> Type 661.
> 
> Hope this is useful.
> 
> Cheers! --Max
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 11:14 AM 8/2/2007, Mal Clark wrote:
> 
> Hi all, wonder if some of you over in the other parts of the world can answer
> a question,asked of me by Bob Stewart,(Aussie Bob) as we know export Sunbeam
> Talbots and Alpines didnt have Indicator arms, But had Flashing indicators,
> he wants to know what configurations was on the rear lights as far as the
> lens go, according to the parts manual, export Sunbeams had two types of rear
> lens a Lucas number of 572673 listed as Non Flashing Lens,and a Lucas Number
> of 572672 Flashing lens,these are not the numbers for the Mk3 Sunbeams,which
> I think used the same red lens for all world supply, Back to the two others
> mentioned above, I have a flat red lens off of my early ex USA Alpine,but
> want to know what the other lens was? no pictures of these lens in Parts
> Book, and are these lens easly obtained,? Bob has reproduced the Curved White
> lens for the rear of the home market cars and what we had here in Aus,and is
> willing to produce the red lens for export cars,anyone help. last question,if
> all
>  the export cars had red rear lens,can we assume there were no provision,
> (apart from MK3) for reverse lights?  Thanks Mal Clark.
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>  * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *  
>  Max King, Ph.D. 
>  Office of the Vice Provost for University Life 
>  University of Pennsylvania 
>  3611 Locust Walk 
>  Philadelphia, PA 19104-6222 
>  (215) 898-6081 (Phone) 
>  (215) 573-5611 (FAX) 
>  mjking at pobox.upenn.edu (E-Mail) 
>  * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *  
Max King, Ph.D. 
Office of the Vice Provost for University Life 
University of Pennsylvania 
3611 Locust Walk 
Philadelphia, PA 19104-6222 
(215) 898-6081 (Phone) 
(215) 573-5611 (FAX) 
mjking at pobox.upenn.edu (E-Mail) 
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *