[Staowners] Rear Light Lens

[starcars8 at comcast.net]

More on Mk111 tail lights. The Mk111 "wedge " shaped lens covered a one bulb tail light. the stop light filament also did double duty as the flasher element enabled by the use of a Lucas DB10/L relay which  allows the flasher to operate when the brake is applied. Very similar to  a lot of US cars. So with the brake applied you have one brake light on steady and the other flashing. I have wired my Mk11 and 11a via a double pole switch to have flasher only or flasher and trafficators. The flasher only being more effective for freeway use. Doing it this way also retains the original lights with no "add on's" to detract from the original look. Export Alpines with flashers also had the reverse light incorporated into the license plate light.

                                                        Pete
-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Max King <mjking at pobox.upenn.edu> 
These are all Lucas Type 464 taillamp assemblies -- the lenses varied based on whether 1 or 2 bulbs in the 464 body.  These red lenses had correspondingly either 1 or 2 "centering cones" (Lucas nomenclature), which are approx. 1" Fresnel circles molded into the lens over the bulb location.   The red lenses are (pictures attached):

464A (Lucas 572673): one centering cone, used for one stop/marker bulb ("Non-Flashing")

464B (Lucas 572672): two centering cones, used for one stop/marker bulb and one turn signal bulb (two bulbs) ("Flasher Type")

464E (Lucas 572876): Fitted to Mk3 90s (this lens is wedge-shaped and compensates for the curvature of the body): two centering cones, used for one stop/marker bulb and one turn signal bulb ("Flasher Type").  For some reason, the Rootes parts manual lists and shows Lucas 572888, which is a one bulb/centering cone lens, but most of the Mk3s I'm familiar with have turn signal flashers and are fitted with two-cone lenses...  By that time, UK cars were no longer fitted with trafficators but had turn signal flashers, and at the recent STAR rally, I only recall seeing two-cone "flasher" lenses on Mk3s -- any comment by Mk3 owners?

All of the above have either 464A, 464B, or 464E molded into the surface of the lens.

Just to complicate things, in later years to reduce stock, Lucas made a replacement lens also listed as 572672, which had three centre cones and thus could be used as replacements for either one or two bulb 464 lights.  These have no "ribs" on the surface and are made of a more modern red glass that is a bit brighter (but the original 464As & Bs are remarkably bright if in good condition).   Some stockists still carry these replacement lenses, but are not correct for the period of our cars (but perfectly functional).

Relative rarity:

--464As are relatively available and can be picked up at UK autojumbles for as little as 50p -- these were fitted to a lot of UK cars.

--The 464Bs are getting quite rare and fetch a premium whenever they show up on eBay (this I know from experience).  These I speculate were fitted mostly to cars exported from the UK.

--The 464Es (for the Mk3) are mildly rare and can be reasonably priced; they were fitted to many cars as well following the demise of trafficators.

Regarding reversing lights, generally only Mk3s were fitted with the number plate lights that incorporated a reversing lens (although some folks I've consulted are of the opinion that some earlier cars, particularly export Alpines, were also fitted with the reversing lens number plate lights).  If you are using red lenses with a non-reversing number plate light, appropriate period Lucas reversing lights would be the ubiquitous Type 494 or possibly Type 661.

Hope this is useful.

Cheers! --Max





At 11:14 AM 8/2/2007, Mal Clark wrote:

Hi all, wonder if some of you over in the other parts of the world can answer a question,asked of me by Bob Stewart,(Aussie Bob) as we know export Sunbeam Talbots and Alpines didnt have Indicator arms, But had Flashing indicators, he wants to know what configurations was on the rear lights as far as the lens go, according to the parts manual, export Sunbeams had two types of rear lens a Lucas number of 572673 listed as Non Flashing Lens,and a Lucas Number of 572672 Flashing lens,these are not the numbers for the Mk3 Sunbeams,which I think used the same red lens for all world supply, Back to the two others mentioned above, I have a flat red lens off of my early ex USA Alpine,but want to know what the other lens was? no pictures of these lens in Parts Book, and are these lens easly obtained,? Bob has reproduced the Curved White lens for the rear of the home market cars and what we had here in Aus,and is willing to produce the red lens for export cars,anyone help. last question,if all
 the export cars had red rear lens,can we assume there were no provision, (apart from MK3) for reverse lights?  Thanks Mal Clark.
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